Sohbet by Shaykh Taner Ansari

American Canyon 11/27/98

Shaykh Taner and murids start with a new zikr: "Hayy ul Qayyum, ya Allah, Hayy ul Qayyum, ya Hadi, Hayy ul Qayyum, ya Baqi", etc. Shaykh shows three ways to do this zikr. One way is called devran, where the dervishes stand in a tight circle with arms around each others' shoulders and move to the left, starting with the left foot forward and the right foot behind.

Shaykh talked about the adab of hand position in the various tariqas. The Qadiri Rifai Tariqa holds each flap of the front of the coat together, with the right hand higher and close to the heart. If the dervish is not wearing the coat, the left hand is laid across the belly and the right hand over the heart.

Shaykh talked about how to greet your Shaykh. When you enter the dergah, you stand with the proper hand position and bow your head toward your heart. This is called boyün kesmek, which means dropping your head. Then you kneel in front of the Shaykh with your right knee first. Then you kiss your Shaykh's hand, and wait until he shows you where to sit. You go to your place, seated with your feet under you. If you kiss your Shaykh's knee, this is a kind of supplication and showing respect called niyaz.

Shaykh Taner: What else do you want to know? As I was saying to Mahmud, of course I heard this many times and I've seen this many times, why love is important, and Bill Gough showed me the readings of the heart and the brain and that the resonance, the readings, electronic readings, they match when you love. Now today also I realized that because this is matching, the information can be transferred. Love is like a conductor, like an antenna. So when, this love is the power of transmission. Shaykh has reached this state, this is a state. The information is built in this state. So, we do not transfer you, we do this too, yes, transfer you this information one by one, or by bringing you to that state you can immediately log in to this and this thing passes to you. That's why you have to be like the shaykh.

Your first step is: Be the Shaykh. Here what we are doing is you are assimilating me in you, because I have assimilated my Shaykh, and then I keep assimilating him still, going on. And then as I do this, your state is also increasing. If everybody stays in the first level, I will not have a chance to go to the top level because I don't need to, because you don't need to. What am I going to do with it? I can't give it to you because you are not receiving. But as you grow, Allah makes the shaykh grow, too, because there is the need. Because how I gave up everything but Allah, that's what you're going to do, and this is going to open your heart, and when I see this I will love you, when you see this, you will love me, and this love is going to bring us together. So you will inherit my state. As I grow, you grow. Or you grow on your own. You'll get attached to the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and then so on and so forth, that's what is fana ful Shaykh, fana ful Rasul, and then, before that, fana ful Pir. If you pass me you have to catch up with Abdul Qadir Geylani. If you catch him, then you're going to go to Muhammad, peace be upon him, fana ful Rasul, then fana fullah. And don't think that these are impossible, these are possible.

Murid: How can you pass your Shaykh?

Shaykh: How can you pass the Shaykh? Allah, Allah. You can't pass the Shaykh.

Shaykha Khadija: But also the Shaykh has gone through that, too.

Shaykh Taner: Yes, Shaykh is there with you all the time, don't worry. Everything is there in your mind, in your mind. It's a level, it's a matter of level, and...

Shaykha Khadija: You just pass fana ful Shaykh.

Shaykh Taner: You will see everything, but all these things are going to happen in the Shaykh. Now you see me as Shaykh. When you see me as Pir, now you have passed the Shaykh. When you see me as the Prophet, then you pass that. When you see Allah here, not me as Allah, but Allah here, when you see the Prophet here, let me rephrase it like that. When you see Abdul Qadir Geylani, when you realize it is Abdul Qadir Geylani who is talking to you, then you have passed the Shaykh, gone. When you see that actually it is the Prophet who is talking, peace be upon him, then you have passed the Pir. And when you see that it's not all them, it's Allah talking, then you're in fana fullah. Yes? So that's how you pass.

So that's why you have to love your Shaykh, it's not because it's me, but that's the rule of the game. Because everybody, all the Shaykh is representing the whole rope. Then you can transfer this, with the motive. Like on the computer it shows, you know, 30 seconds, 20 seconds, 30%, 60%, 100%. It's like that.

Murid: The transference, does it go on all different levels?

Shaykh: It goes on. Everything is so intricate, you can only know when you get there, no matter how much I tell you, I cannot draw you a clear picture because it is almost impossible to draw this picture with the outer, you have to see this with the inner. Everything is within the self. If there are seven nafs, each nafs has seven nafs. Seven layers. Each one has ten parts. So you add up to so many. it comes to 70,000 pardahs, screens or barriers, veils. 70,000. At least there's a limit.

Murid: Is that the same number of words that Allah and our prophet spoke?

Shaykh: Maybe, I don't know, it's I think it was 52,000 or something. (Shaykh sings a song about 52,000 veils in Turkish.) Yunus said this. He said, I passed 70,00 hijabs. And I've been into many, many situations, conditions, and I got together with the Dost in a hal, I saw Him in a hal. Hal means a situation, in a vision or, temporary vision, not a...(sings again.)

Murid: What's "fani" ?

Shaykh: Fani, opposite of Baqi. Dunya fani, Baqi Hu. Allah is Baqi, Dunya is fani.

Murid: Fani, like fana fullah, like gone?

Shaykh: Yes, fani is like temporary, passing.

Murid: What is the adab of leaving for a minute?

Shaykh: Leaving is, you get up again, you don't have to kiss anything, you just go like this (Shaykh does boyün kesmek) and then go backwards and then, like that.

Now, Mr. Don Davies, why we have to salute the hall and the meeting and the shaykh, actually it is not for the shaykh, this is for the hall, this is for the place, because Allah says in Surat-un-Nur, in The Light, "Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth. And this light is found in the places where men do zikr." So because zikr is made here, Allah's light is here. And you are doing all this to Allah, you are not doing it to anybody else. When you make sajda, you are doing it to Allah. Some people come and make sajda in front of the shaykh. It doesn't mean that he's doing it to the shaykh, shaykh is beyond this, he's not even there. He's doing it to the place, to Allah, Allah's light. So when fundamentalists watch this, oh what is he doing, he's prostrating to the shaykh, and he's doing this and he's doing that, now it's haram, haram, it's forbidden, no good, because they don't understand. And they don't ask why. They just talk behind. You know. So but we prove everything with science, there is the Book, it says like this, so should we do this? Yes, why? Because Allah says, I am there. What else do you want, I mean? Allah is here, His light is here. Allah says that in Qur'an. I am not making it up.

We went to Los Angeles, and these fundamentalists came with guns and everything else, you know. Because they want to show that they are the all-knowing, all-wise and this guy is... So they read my article saying that, there's a principle in Islam, Allah has no place. They think He's not anywhere. I said Allah is everywhere, so they oppose it. how can you say Allah is everywhere? Where is Allah? Everywhere. So then I asked him, where is Allah? He says, no where. Oh, I see, so He doesn't exist. If He's no where, He doesn't exist. They think I'm blasphemous, I think, I don't think, I know they are blasphemous because according to them Allah doesn't exist. He doesn't have a place. What it means is La makan, which means it doesn't have a definite place, which is Allah is everywhere and beyond. So it is not limited, that's what that principle is trying to say is that Allah is not limited because if He has a definite place, these are the borders of Allah, what about the rest?

If you have questions, please do ask.

Murid: What you said just reminds me of a lot of things that I haven't thought about for a long time because of isolation and what not.

Murid: Is it too early to ask about Ramadan? I've been so out of it, I know that it's coming up.

Shaykh: I think it's the 21st of December.

Murid: So we start fasting at fajr, right?

Murid: I have these books, sermons by Abdul-Qadir Jilani, and he talks about the importance of praying for forgiveness and for repenting. And I'm not sure I really understand what repentance means.

Shaykh: Repentance means that you feel sorry for what you did. That's repentance. That you realize your mistake, realizing your mistake. Because you make mistake you don't realize, you hurt somebody you don't know. And you realize it and feel sorry about it, then that's repentance. Which is also a resolution, it also has resolution not to do it again. It's called tubeh. " Estafurullah, tubtu ilallah, wen aytu qalbi anma siwallah." Estafurullah means, o Allah, forgive me. There are kinds of forgiveness in Arabic. Two, three kinds. In English they are all combined as forgive. Istihfar, ahf is like amnesty, istihfar is to be overlooked, forgiven. Tubtu ilallah, O Allah, I make repentence, tubeh. I resolve that I will not do my mistakes again. That's what it means, tubeh.

That's why it's better to learn things in, terminology in Arabic. When you translate it, these things get lost. If you use the Arabic word there, then you could make more meaning out of it. Tubeh...

Murid: Seems to me like the, you know they're, I could repent for wrong action, I could repent for a lack of understanding, I could repent for not thinking of Allah all the time pretty much. I mean, it feels like there's an infinite number of levels of what repentance might mean.

Shaykh: Mostly your action. For your incompleteness you make istihfar. Istihfar, that's asking forgiveness for all that. That's why there are many words. Yes?

Murid: Could you tell us about, repeat the one shaykh, I can't remember who, or maybe it was the Prophet, saws. Anyway, the one who thought he might have hurt someone unintentionally. What was that story again?

Shaykh: Imam, one of the Imams. One of the 12 Imams. He used to ask forgiveness so many times a day, and one of his close students said, O Shaykh, why do you keep asking forgiveness, I mean I've been with you for 10, 20 years and I haven't seen you make any mistake or any sin. And he said, well, son, how can you know that? Because maybe somebody came for help and I didn't smile at him, and so he was afraid to bring me his problem. How can I be sure? That's why I'm asking all this forgiveness. That's how fine they do these things. Finer and finer and finer. And our Prophet Muhammad, saws, he used to make 101 times Estafurullah a day. And they said the same thing to him and he said, well, I look today, I see myself yesterday incomplete compared to today. That's why I ask forgiveness, that today may be incomplete compared to tomorrow. So we are always behind, that's why I ask forgiveness, because, I ask forgiveness for not being able to be the shaykh that I am today 5 years ago, or last year. I couldn't give you the same information 5 years ago which I can give you now. So I was incomplete then.

So we, two Muslim's, believer's two days should not be the same. You should always be progressing. And this is automatic when you intend to learn, and with this intention take a step towards Allah, which you have done coming to the tariqa, and that's it. And if you keep on holding it, Allah will keep on teaching you, one way or the other, with your language that you understand. It may be tough or softer, both or all of the above, He will teach you. And then you will learn. If you are smart, you'll learn faster, these things will go away. Come to the next one. But if you are thick-headed like me, then you keep falling into the same thing again and again and never learn. Alhamdulillah.

Oh, ach! To bring the murid, student to the 4th level, that's the nafs-i-mutmaina, that's where the Shaykh's job is to bring you up to there. That's the requisite. My contract is to bring you there. Form there on it is optional. You know, depends on a second contract. So Haji Hamza says, to bring a student to there, a shaykh's artery explodes, his head. And my poor Shaykh, Allah know how much he suffered because of me, you know, my poor Shaykhs, my Pirs, to bring me to a state, what they went through. That's why I suffer a lot, because that's what I made them suffer, then payback time.

Murid: My poor Shaykh.

Shaykh: So that's that.

Murid: So we're helping you pay your debt.

Shaykh: Yes, thank you, I appreciate you, I appreciate all of you. I accept you as you are, I have no complaints, I am very happy That you are my children and you're my students and I love you all.

Murid: We love you, too.

Shaykh: I am Italiano, I like mambo. This is how we like our family, That's okay, somebody may not like it, but we like them like this. A lot of noise, a lot of tough heads, thick heads, this that, you know. It's okay, you know, because we are cut from the same mold. Like father like son. Like son like father. I can take it. Inshallah. The important thing is may Allah be pleased. That's the important thing. As long as Allah loves you, He will give you everything. That's the important thing. Anything else?

Murid: You talked about the Shaykh and the Pirs and up to the Prophet Muhammad, saws, and how do the other prophets figure in?

Shaykh: Well, other prophets have their own people and their own people do the same thing in their own branch. Everybody has, you know, their own people who, the same thing is valid for them.

Murid: Each prophet has his own...

Shaykh: Group, of course. It's like an army system. Say top is Muhammad, saws, then the other prophets. We don't make any distinction between the prophets, all prophets are the same. Same line. So here are the followers of Muhammad, which means the people who got the message from Muhammad are responsible, Muhammad is responsible for all of them because he gave the message to them and he's their teacher. That is divided into categories, you know, then the tariqas, there's Abdul Qadir Geylani, Naqshbandi, this, this, this, and among them there are other shaykhs. So when you are gathered, you are gathered in that group. And the other prophets have their own thing. The same message has come to all the prophets, do you not, no prophet got a different message.

What is the message? There is Allah, there is you. He is the boss and you are not. That's the message. So obey that. Here is the manual of this universe, this world, this is how you should live if you know. If you are wise, you do like this. I created you, I'm giving you how you should live. What is it? It is a science of living. Social, historic, psychological, this and that. Be clean, don't hurt anybody, help everybody, don't do adultery, it destroys the society because then there's no mother, no father, there's no one, and all kinds of sicknesses can happen, you know, like this. so it's all designed and given to all the prophets, including Muhammad, saws.

Murid: We see it written down in some instances, and was it written down, do all the prophets, pbut, have somebody to write down the message?

Shaykh: Look. some of them got a Book, you know, Abraham, Moses,
Jesus, Muhammad, pbut, or some others, they are given books. The others are not given books. If they wrote, no nobody wrote them, writing was not the biggest issue, so that's why every tribe used to get a prophet, so they can have the message. Because the communication. Now, you don't need that, television, radio, this that, enough.

Why isn't there another prophet, because there's no need to, the message is there, the same message is going to be given, instead of prophets, shaykhs, walis are giving these messages. Because Allah is not going to say anything new, and he didn't say anything new to, He only said it maybe to Adam, because he was the first one. The rest, they didn't;t get any new message, it's the same thing except maybe a few changes here and there, you know, depending on their situation, that's all.

Murid: Was Adam created a prophet, or did he become a prophet later.

Shaykh: All prophets are appointed before time. Before they are born, they are. So he was the first man and he was the first prophet.

Murid: Well each prophet has a different relationship with Allah, like you know, Muhammad spoke personally...

Shaykh: Dominant. One side is dominant, it doesn't mean that the other sides were down or something, it's that they are known with that. That side was apparent. Ibrahim Halilullah. It's mentioned in Qur'an what is.
Allah talked to Musa in person, so he's Kalimullah, and then Allah created Jesus from His soul, and that's why he's Ruhullah. And Allah loved Muhammad, He made him His beloved, and that's why he's Habibullah.

Murid: But each one of the prophets has all of those qualities, it's just that they're stronger in...

Shaykh: And Allah said to Yunus he's the Nightingale of Allah, and Allah said to Imam Ali he's the Lion of Allah. And there are other sahabe who are the seyfullah, who are the sword of Allah. abdul Qadir Geylani is the Baz, the Falcon, of Allah.

Murid: That's why the publishing company is Al-Baz, because they only publish Abdul Qadir Geylani's books.

Shaykh: What is your shaykh?

Murid: My Shaykh is Baz...

Shaykh: He is the sucker of Allah.(chuckle, chuckle) Anyway, it's okay, I don't want to insult your Shaykh...

Murid: Don't insult our Shaykh...

Murid: I thought you were saying "sucker" for a minute...

Shaykh: Yes, I said, "sucker".

Murid: It's a play on words...

Shaykh: Sucker team, head sucker here, and the second one is over there...left, right, he's in the left wing, right wing, center forward...

Murid: Allah sends prophets and He sends messengers. Messengers, they can be angels, they can be...

Shaykh: Anybody, they can be anybody. See, when we say prophets, in English they think these people who prophesize are the prophets. In Arabic it doesn't mean like that. Arabic is nebi, nebi means Allah-sent prophet, Allah assigned for this job to give the message. Rasul, rasul means who gives the message. And then nebi means he's the prophet, which means he's the holy person who's representing Allah on earth. That's Allah's door. That's what we mean by prophet.

Murid: So what's the distinction between messenger and prophet?

Shaykh: He can be a prophet and then not be a messenger.

Murid: Really?

Shaykh: Why not? Allah can send you here and, don't give any message.

Murid: And He can send a messenger who's not a prophet, too.

Shaykh: See, I'm not a, the shaykhs are not messengers or prophets but representing Allah on earth. What are we doing? giving the same message that Allah has sent to Muhammad, I'm not giving any new message, just repeating the same thing.

Murid: But if He sends a messenger, maybe you answered it already and I don't understand...

Shaykh: You want to know why would Allah send nebi but not the messenger.

Murid: Or messenger but not nebi. For instance, He could assign someone as a messenger, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a prophet.

Shaykh: That's right, He can send a message with anybody and not be a prophet. He gives a message through her (pointing at baby), too.

Murid: But, so there's no class of special messengers.

Shaykh: No, there's not. But usually, all prophets were messengers. Like, let's say John. Did he give message or was he a prophet? John the Baptist. Jesus gave the message. In other words, a book wasn't sent with him. He was there just to apply whatever, like after Moses there came a lot of nebi, anbiya. They were not messengers. In the sense, I mean, they were of course giving a message, but not... yes, yes, these are holy people who are giving the message that came to Moses. They didn't get a message to give, they are giving, their message is this: Give the message that came to Moses. That's what they are doing. But Moses is a rasul, a prophet and a messenger.

Murid: so, basically, the ones that were given the book were the prophet-messenger together.

Shaykh: Yes, basically. Universal, like these prophets are universal prophets. The others come to, just for the tribes. But Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, I don't know about Moses, but he is also in it for the whole humanity. Others are for certain people, like the Jews or the Turks.

Murid: Why don't we hear about prophets in other lands, like most of them seem to go in the same area of the world?

Shaykh: Because that is the, what does Allah say in Qur'an? Because it is the middle, middle land, middle people. Middle. In the, even now, where is the center of earth is there, because it stays in between Africa, Asia, Europe. Geographically it is the central location. So the message can go, because of the trade routes and, they are the middle nation because they go, they trade with everybody. So that's why it is always there. and if somebody came somewhere else, which happened probably, it is mentioned like Alexander the Great maybe was a prophet with the horn. It is mentioned to them, if it is relevant to them, it is mentioned. If it is not, it is not mentioned because they don't know the end of the world, the other end of the world, they know their area. And also these are, Allah has chosen especially, genetically raised a nation which can receive Allah's message. And these are all coming from the same genetic route. There is the importance of genetics, only there. To be able to carry the load. You need a lot of patience, a lot of dedication, selflessness, all these things. You know, you need help. why would somebody do what I am doing? I don't want to put myself in it, but why would I? Here i can go out, you know, I can go into business and make a lot of money and, if I want to enjoy myself, I'd go to bars and this and that, you know, I have all kinds of things. Why am I putting myself into this inquisition? Because Allah wants me to, that's why. So I say, Eywallah, and it is in my blood, and I have no objection, I'm happy to do it. That puts me in the sucker team.

Shaykh reads al-Fatiha.

Murid: Why do we wipe our faces with our hands (after reading Fatiha)?

Shaykh: It's a sign language, be upon us. You catch Allah's light in your hands, blessings, so you put the blessings on your face.

Murid: I thought it was a cleansing.

Shaykh: Yes, you open your hands. You were talking today, right? There is a sign, there is a number, there is a letter, there is the sign language. you can say a lot of things with your mouth or with your brain, math, physically, chemically, biologically or the sign language. This is designed as give (holding his hands outstretched and cupped upwards), right? Give. What are we going to do with the blessings, we got it now? And, as she said, you can wash your face with the blessing, clean up, or you put it on yourself, you can put like this (rubbing hands over body). When you are asking, don't give me, then you go like this (holding hands outstretched facing downwards), O Allah, please don't give me sickness, don't give me this, you go like this, turn your hands that way. Yes. When you do, please give me health, you go like this. Please don't give me...like that, don't give me sickness, don't give me trouble, don't give me that, don't give me that, this, go like this. Give me, open, so that the water will not run out, if you cup it. And now here comes alims: because nobody remembers our Prophet Muhammad, did he hold his hands like this, or did he hold his hands like this, or did he hold his hands like this. So you put it like this, they say, no, raise it up, raise it up. So there you go, and you look at what's everybody doing and...and all these things are...

Murid: Some people go like this.

Shaykh: There's a Buddhist thing like (hands folded together in front of chest)...That's, in their language it means the same thing. In our language, this is it. When we do this, Allah understands that, oh, we want. When we do like this, oh, we don't want. Give it to me, give it to me, give it to me. (chuckle, chuckle)

Shall we do a little zikr?

Baby: Yeah.

Zikr...